Browsing around the new website that’s getting a lot of attention lately - God Tube - I came across the video below. Really folks, I just can’t get my head around this. I think Hitler said something like, ‘If you tell a lie loud enough and long enough, people will begin to believe it’. Case in point - The Pre-Tribulation Rapture!
What’s worse than the video, are the comments that have been left on it. According to one person, I’m going to hell,
“If you don’t believe the rapture will take place like this video portrays, then the Lord rebuke thee. You are of the devil.”
The ignorance of the Word of God ought to make us weep, brethren.
Another person said,
“This is just as the Rapture was portrayed in the Left Behind series”
Precisely!! However, it’s not what the Bible says about the matter. If you haven’t read it already, I suggest you go and read how ‘One Verse Destroy’s The Pre-Trib Rapture‘.
If you’re not a Christian, this video shows how Jesus isn’t going to come. If Jesus returns like this, then at least when millions of people disappear, you’ll have a chance to repent and believe. However, the Bible says that Jesus will return, and that’s it! No opportunity to repent thereafter. He’ll come in “flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel”.
Observe how it isn’t going to happen -
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Added Commentary
By Everyday Weekender
on 09.04.07
wow.. very nice new design.. i like it.. very clean and slick.
By Daniel Ritchie
on 09.04.07
When preaching on 1 Thess. 4:1 my old minister, Rev. John Hawthorne said that in order to reconcile “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God” with the secret rapture, you would have to ‘believe in a whispering God, a dumb archangel and a mute trumpet’.
By Clara Eve
on 09.04.07
A church historian, Dave MacPherson, has spent the last several decades uncovering 19th century “rapture” documents, in libraries in Britain etc., that most everyone else was unaware of or was unable to locate. His articles on Google touching on the same discoveries include “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “X-Raying Margaret” (the pretrib originator), “Deceiving and Being Deceiving” (showing that the Morgan Edwards and Pseudo-Ephraem claims are bogus), “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” and “Famous Rapture Watchers” (showing that no Christian theology before 1830 taught anything even remotely resembling a pretrib rapture). Recently Grant Jeffrey, a pretrib promoter in Canada, stated on his site that “many” have lately abandoned the pretrib view because of the claim that pretrib was unheard of for 1800 years. Hopefully everyone will want to look at the newly found facts before they make up their mind in regard to the rapture debate. Clara
By Jason
on 09.04.07
I normally stay away from debate on eschatological matters, but I did want to point out that you have used some rather strong language against a position that is arguably held by the majority of fundamentalists in Australia and about which Scripture leaves room for disagreement.
By Armen
on 09.04.07
EW - Thank you. Always trying to improve, and the only way I can know that’s happening is with feedback such as you have left. I appreciate it.
Daniel - I see where he’s coming from, and I’ve heard similar, such as 1 Thes 4 being the noisiest passage in the whole Bible. However, not all believe it will be ‘Secret’ or ‘Silent’, so you have to be careful that you don’t mark out all to have that view.
Clara - Welcome! History usually is not a good basis for debate because we are relying upon fallible resources. Because of that, especially in a doctrinal issue, it’s best to just stick to the scriptures.
Jason - Welcome brother! Let me first say, that just because one holds to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, doesn’t mean I consider them a heretic. If one is a genuine believer and holds this position, I trust I can fellowship with them, and rejoice in the more fundamental issues of the faith where we agree.
Having said that, I’m not a man-pleaser as you will appreciate, and to be honest, I think if you removed the Scofield Bible and the Left Behind books and movies, there would be a lot less support for the Pre-Trib Rapture.
By Clara Eve
on 09.04.07
I have to kindly disagree on one point: that history isn’t as reliable as Scripture. Much of the Bible itself is history - bad things about Bible heroes as well as good things, and the history of rapture teaching is the history of what past Bible teachers thought the Bible was teaching. And history shows us if those teachers were sticking to the Word or injecting something else. MacPherson has documented that some well-known Bible teachers of the past have based some of their pretrib arguments on questionable things such as pyramidology and astrology and he has also documented that many well-known pretrib teachers have had massive plagiarism in their books! And, yes, MacPherson names names of famous teachers of the past and present. For 177 years the emphasis on only Scriptural interpretation has resolved nothing, rapturally speaking, because anyone’s opinion (even if one has no qualifications for interpreting) seems to be as good as anyone else’s opinion. History, on the other hand, seems to be much more reliable in helping to settle differences re the rapture. After all, history is a finished record; either historical documents exist or they don’t. If past Bible teachers had phony degrees, or scandals, or were plagiarists, then we should evaluate them in light of Timothy’s qualifications for church leaders, right? But of course if we eliminate from the debate the lives of past teachers, we won’t be in danger of finding out their qualifications! When Bible teachers compare, say, Mormonism with the Bible, they never stop there but alway bring up Mormon history including dirty linen in the lives of Smith and Young. So if they can do that, why can’t Bible teachers examine the bad as well as the good in the lives of past pretribbers including Scofield, Darby, Irving, Macdonald etc.? There seems to be a double standard! If we can’t learn some things from history, perhaps the Lord will have us learn some things in the future the hard, screaming way! Just my thoughts. Clara
By Armen
on 09.04.07
Clara - With all due respect, you’re missing one vital component. The history of the Bible was inspired by the Spirit of God - all other historical documents are not(at least not to the point of infalibility). Depending on who is recording the history, depends upon its accuracy. Some men when recording the lives of other men, paint them with warts and all. Other veneer their lives, telling only the good parts.
Likewise with events; certain details can be added or ommitted to give a different impression than what truly happened.
I know many tell us of the character of Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, etc in opposition to the cults they began (I have used this approach). However, such arguments would be useless if used on their own. The main thrust of the argument ought to be based upon the right interpretation of scripture.
I wouldn’t want to try and show Arminianism to be unbiblical by using the lives and characters of some of its main proponents, ie John Wesley.
None of the differences of the Christian Church (baptism, arminianism/calvinism, eschatology, church government, etc) can be approached upon historical documents alone, it must be centered primarily upon the Bible.
To say that looking at the characteristics of the roots of a belief will change someones view, might not always be the case. Many bad men have made good statements, and someone may say that although Darby (or whoever) was a questionable character, the Rapture is biblical.
I think there are three reasons why biblical debates don’t always work.
1. They are based upon a pride of knowledge in one side or both.
2. It’s not prayerfully entered into and not led by the Spirit by either party.
3. One side has a closed mind, and his conscience is not bound by the word of God.
If one or more of the above is present, then it’s unlikely to be fruitful.
I see where you’re coming from Clara, but I think in this case it’s a little flawed.
By Joanna
on 13.04.07
that video is rather scary and so untrue! when Jesus comes again there will be no second chance for people!!!!
By Glenn
on 13.04.07
I reminds me of a “church” we went to on our honeymoon, in Barbados,2002. It was in a huge marquee, and they played a movie, along very similar lines. I hung around afterwards to speak to the “minister” and he was SO friendly…until I questioned the doctrine of the movie, how it implied there was a chance after the Lord’s return for people to come to Him. He couldn’t get away quick enough, was almost rude, in his haste to get away!
I remember thinking, if that was a stranger, staying behind to speak to my Pastor, it would have been an entirely different picture!
By Armen
on 13.04.07
Glenn - That’s strange too, isn’t it? Willing to display a movie with a particular end-time view, and just hope that everyone swallows it without a question! Then not prepared to defend and expound the position.
Was that movie shown at the Sabbath service?
By Jim Swindle
on 15.04.07
Armen, I really appreciate your kind, firm disagreement with Clara. My own position is pre-millennial; I’m undecided about the pre-trib views. To come back to the point of your discussion with Clara, sometimes God uses very flawed people to give birth to movements that bring glory to him. Similarly, sometimes very godly, fruitful people are wrong on certain points.
However, I do believe it’s possible to look at the over-all fruit of a particular belief system, to ask whether it tends to produce godliness.
By Romanós
on 09.06.07
Thanks for posting the movie segment on the Rapture. It was very well done, but I wouldn’t call it a spoof.
You evangelicals sure do argue a lot about things which are hidden well by God but dug up and refined by the shovelful by your aggressive exegesis. I am a Greek Orthodox Christian, and we just believe what the Bible says in its simplicity. The Church fathers have been mostly silent on these matters, regarding them as unwritable, except for those who have sometimes been caught up in controversies with each other or, in modern times, with Papalists and Protestants, in which case they sometimes bared their teeth. But why use mockery of the beliefs of others as an unworthy weapon, when you are not daring enough to call them heretics?
The irrefutable truths of our Christian faith (yours and ours) are simple enough and in agreement. Why commit offenses against love by shaming the beliefs of your brothers that you do not share, but which you say in effect do not matter, instead of humbly overlooking their folly (if you deem it thus) and trusting our Lord Jesus to make intercession for them (and for you) before His Father?
By Armen
on 12.06.07
Excellent point. As much as I don’t believe the belief in the pre-trib rapture is “heretical”, some of the doctrines that it ultimately leads too are, such as the dispensational idea that people are “saved” by different means in different dispensations. I cannot but believe that such a teaching is heresy.
Therefore, my desire to keep people away from a pre-trib view, also stems from a desire to encourage them from having a dispensational view of salvation.
By timothy
on 14.10.07
Peace of our Lord Jesus be upon you. Always glad to find believers of like mind online. My blog and excellent video i uploaded to google video and veoh by Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club teaching sound doctrine of the post-tribulation view.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=91713113&blogID=316079107
By Bruce Rockwell
on 04.12.07
While Googling I ran into several rapture articles including “Pretrib Rapture Desperados” and “Letter from Mrs. Billy Graham” and would love to see reactions to them. The rapture subject sure is interesting, eh? Bruce
By KMcDonald
on 01.02.08
GIVE ME A E-MAIL ADDRESS AND I WILL SENT YOU A STUDY ON THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE.
By KMcDonald
on 01.02.08
SEND ME YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS : I WILL SEND A STUDY OF THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE. YOU MAY REUSE ANY PART OF IT, THANK YOU KMCDONALD
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